Cambridge Conference Correspondence

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From: Leroy Ellenberger <cle@imr-stl.com>
To: cambridge-conference <cambridge-conference@livjm.ac.uk>, pib <pib@nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pole shift paper by Flavio Barbiero
Date sent: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:10:02 -0500

In thinking over Barbiero's model further, I respond a second time
to highlight a feature that is most dubious, namely, his expectation
that "From here on the equatorial bulge is quickly reformed around
the new axis of rotation and Earth will soon be stable again, with a
different axis of rotation and different poles." While it is true Earth
experiences an eighteen (or so) inch body tide, along with the
well known ocean tides, giving the impression Earth can adjust its
figure/shape quickly, it is also true that Earth is still adjusting to
the disappearance of the ice caps ca. 10,000 years ago in
Laurentia and Fennoscandia. This present, on-going adjustment
to a perturbation 10,000 years ago shows us that Earth does not
necessarily adjust to changes as fast as the propagation of the
body tide every day might lead one to expect. It takes time for
a viscous body to adjust to new conditions--far longer than envisioned
by Barbiero's model.

Cheers,

--C. Leroy Ellenberger, "vivere est vincere"
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/velidelu.html

ftp://ftp.primenet.com/pub/lippard/; 9 cle-files
cle@imr-stl.com
----------
> From: pib@nwu.edu
> To: cambridge-conference@livjm.ac.uk
> Subject: Pole shift paper by Flavio Barbiero
> Date: Friday, April 11, 1997 1:46 AM
>
> Emilio Spedicato of the University of Bergamo has posted a paper by
> Flavio Barbiero entitled "On the Possibility of Very Rapid Shifts of the
> Poles" at the web address:
>
> http://www.unibg.it/dmsia/dynamics/poles.html

> Mr. Barbiero suggests that rapid large shifts of the Earth's axis of
> rotation can be induced by impacts of objects as small as a
half-kilometer
> asteroid. I am rather skeptical about the argument he uses based upon
> treating the Earth as a semi-fluid gyroscope, especially since it seems
to
> contradict the findings of others (e.g., Lasker). I would appreciate
> comments from someone familiar with the geophysics of the situation as to
> whether Mr. Barbiero is on to something.
>
> -- Phil "Pib" Burns
> Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
> pib@nwu.edu
> http://pibweb.it.nwu.edu/~pib/

From: Leroy Ellenberger <cle@imr-stl.com>
To: cambridge-conference <cambridge-conference@livjm.ac.uk>, pib <pib@nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pole shift paper by Flavio Barbiero
Date sent: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:13:58 -0500

Regarding Barbiero's model for flipping Earth by the effects
of a 0.5 km asteroid impact interacting with solar and lunar
tides, I fail to be persuaded. This models to a 1.0 mm grain
of sand hitting a 25 meter diameter granite ball. The equatorial
bulge on the model would be ca. 21 mm. Clearly, the inertia
of the bulge by itself would seem to overwhelm anything the
sand grain might produce by way of effect. Barbiero's equations
may be valid, but he has not produced a dynamical simulation.
Even Spedicato admits the model contains simplifying
assumptions. Barbiero also does not explicitly deal with the
fact that any impact takes ca. 85 minutes for its effects to
propagate to the other side of the Earth, which effect alone
may well be fatal to his model even if the impact were big
enough on an instantaneous time scale. Last summer when
I sent a copy of Barbiero's paper to Dr. Victor J. Slabinski,
astrodynamicist at Intelsat who refuted Peter Warlow's model
for geographical inversions in J. Phys. A in the early 1980s
and whose rebuttal David Salkeld has ignored since October
1991, Victor responded with a "back of the envelope calculation"
indicating Barbiero's model would not work as intended.
Furthermore, no one has identified the impact crater of early
Holocene age that would have been produced if Barbiero's
speculations are on point.

Cheers,

--C. Leroy Ellenberger, "vivere est vincere"
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/velidelu.html

> Mr. Barbiero suggests that rapid large shifts of the Earth's axis of
> rotation can be induced by impacts of objects as small as a
half-kilometer
> asteroid. I am rather skeptical about the argument he uses based upon
> treating the Earth as a semi-fluid gyroscope, especially since it seems
to
> contradict the findings of others (e.g., Lasker). I would appreciate
> comments from someone familiar with the geophysics of the situation as to
> whether Mr. Barbiero is on to something.
>
> -- Phil "Pib" Burns
> Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
> pib@nwu.edu
> http://pibweb.it.nwu.edu/~pib/
>

Subject: Pole shift paper by Flavio Barbiero
To: cambridge-conference@livjm.ac.uk
Date sent: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 01:46:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: pib@nwu.edu

Emilio Spedicato of the University of Bergamo has posted a paper by
Flavio Barbiero entitled "On the Possibility of Very Rapid Shifts of the
Poles" at the web address:

http://www.unibg.it/dmsia/dynamics/poles.html

Mr. Barbiero suggests that rapid large shifts of the Earth's axis of
rotation can be induced by impacts of objects as small as a half-kilometer
asteroid. I am rather skeptical about the argument he uses based upon
treating the Earth as a semi-fluid gyroscope, especially since it seems to
contradict the findings of others (e.g., Lasker). I would appreciate
comments from someone familiar with the geophysics of the situation as to
whether Mr. Barbiero is on to something.

-- Phil "Pib" Burns
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
pib@nwu.edu
http://pibweb.it.nwu.edu/~pib/

CCCMENU CCC for 1997