From: Leroy Ellenberger <>
To: Benny J Peiser <>,
cambridge-conference <>
Date sent: Sat, 10 May 1997 14:24:27 -0500

Prof. Nur's comments below are well-taken [and this time, in contrast
to my usage in KRONOS VII:2, I know what it means], but I feel compelled
to add a few observations based on my following topics in Bronze Age
dynamics since 1969 when I first read Worlds in Collision, and even more
intensely since 1990 when I heard Victor Clube at Toronto and read his
(with Bill Napier) second book, The Cosmic Winter.

If earthquakes are a major vector of Bronze Age collapse to the exclusion
of a cosmic, or Taurid complex, vector, then this will have to be decided
on an assessment of ALL the relevant evidence. What has impressed me
as a well-read layman, is how discoveries tend to be explained on the basis
of the expectations of the investigators. In 1987 when the Danes in NATURE
published the Dye 3 date for the Minoan eruption of Thera, for example,
they noted that they looked at the three major acidity signals in the
relevant time span. They reported that two of these signals were nitric
not sulfuric, and therefore not of volcanic origin. So, only the 1645 date
remained for Thera. They even had "explanations" for the presence of the
nitric acid spikes they found, but their attempted explanations did not
include a comet-meteor-stream alternative--and a major accretion event
could produce a nitric acid signal; but this was not even considered.

Some people in the S.I.S. with whom I have corresponded and talked with
at meetings keep bringing up the possibility that the Mediterranean to
Middle Eastern Bronze Age destruction sites fell on the self-same day
due to a multi-super-Tunguska event produced by a chain of bolides
detonating over a 2500 km track. Fireball chains are rare events. One
occurred in Feb. 1913 (I think I recall--J.A. O'Keefe wrote about it in
SCIENCE and one of Corliss's books discusses it) and it is not so far
beyond the realm of possibility that an earlier chain made up of Tunguska-
class bolides did the deed. This could be tested by looking for metallic
spherules at sites (as were discovered at Tunguska when they looked for
them) or for samples of vitreous flash glazing. Recall the archaeologists
only found tephra on Crete from Thera after a laborious search in which
a few grains were found tucked away here and there.

After Kevin Pang had an article on volcanic global climate effects in THE
SCIENCES in Jan/Feb 1991, my letter in the Jul/Aug issue pointed out
that some, not all, of the Chinese accounts of famine and climate plunges
associated with volcanic eruptions contained mentions of cometary and
related phenomena which usually are taken with a grain of salt as poetic
devices, etc.; but what if such allusions are really purposeful, as Clube
and his co-workers hold as a working hypothesis?

I would like to take this opportunity to call your attention to two very
interesting discussions by Bob Kobres on cometary vectors in Bronze
Age settings: his articles on comets and the Bronze Age collapse

and the fall of Phaethon (in Ovid's Metamorphoses and Book V of the
Sibylline Oracles, and elsewhere) explained as the close passage of
a comet just BEHIND Earth with fire and flood/tidal wave caused by
accompanying debris--such a passage would have the comet climb
as the Sun for ca. 5 hrs, stand still (while doubling in diameter) for
ca. 30 min., then crash to the horizon in ca. 15 min: and on that day,
summer turned to winter, but translators often render the line that
winter turned to summer because of the heat from the fires!


Bottom line: we will only discover the real truth when all relevant
scenarios are considered in explaining the evidence at archeological
sites, with Clube & Napier's "literary" data informing the research
programs. Regarding the -2300 horizon, barely mentioned by Clube
& Napier in their work so far, Moe Mandelkehr (who has published in
SIS Review and C&C Review) proposes that much of myth can be
explained in the context of Earth acquiring a highly inclined ring
of debris at that time during a spectacular Taurid accretion event,
which lasted ordmag one year or less. Mandelkehr has not been
able to find a publisher for his manuscript book on this event.
Contact him at <>.

Despite how interesting the work of Clube & Napier and associates,
plus Bob Kobres and Moe Mandelkehr and others is, their ideas
can only be established by fully confronting all the evidence, once
all the relevant evidence has been assembled/found when looked for.

--C. Leroy Ellenberger, "vivere est vincere"; 9 cle-files

> From: Benny J Peiser <>
> To:
> Date: Friday, May 09, 1997 7:26 AM
> from: Prof Amos Nur <nur@pangea.Stanford.EDU>
> Of course earthquakes ALONE are not responisble for the end of the
> Bronze Age. The real question is: Did they play a crucial or a
> major role in initiating this collapse? The archaeological,
> documentary and pictorial evidence--together with GEOPHYSICAL
> FACTS-- suggest that earthquakes did.
> Amos M. Nur
> Professor of Geophysics
> Wayne Loel Professor of Earth Sciences
> Geophysics Department
> Stanford University
> Stanford, CA 94305-2215
> phone: 415-723-9526
> fax: 415-723-1188
> email:
> url:



Date sent: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:32:00 +1200 (NZST)
From: Joel Schiff <>
Subject: Meteorite! magazine

Meteorite! is an international quarterly journal devoted to the topics of
meteorites, asteroids, craters, and related subjects (Tunguska is one of our
favorites). It is on a similar scientific level to Sky & Telescope and
Scientific American, and past contributors have included Duncan Steel, and
Mark Bailey from this Network. We welcome unsolicited material for
publication which can be sent to the Editor via e-mail.

The TABLE OF CONTENTS for our May issue includes:

Mesosiderites... by Henning Haack
Messengers from an early violent period in the evolution of the Solar System

Chinge, Part II... by Roy A. Gallant

The 1997 Meteorite Show in Tucson... by O. Richard Norton

My Life with Meteorites, Part IV... by Brian Mason

Libyan Desert Silica Glass - A Jewel in the Desert... by Vincenzo de Michele
& Romano Serra

Meteorite Internet Sites... by Martin Horejsi

Contemplating an Investigation of CO3 Chondrites by Alan Rubin

The Meteorite of Mont Dieu... by Alain Carion

Something is Wrong at Sikhote-Alin: A Mystery... by O. Richard Norton

A Fatal Thunderstone... by Alfredo Brogioni

Other features are: News, Ask the Geologist, Centerpiece (The Cat Mountain
Meteorite), Book Reviews.

Further information can be found on our website:

Joel Schiff - Editor/Publisher

CCCMENU CCC for 1997